Category: Front Suspension

Questions we’ve been asked about front suspension- Mustang II vs. solid axle, four link, hairpins, etc.

Dear Welder Series… 1936 Plymouth Mustang II?

Dear Welder Series…

I have included a couple pics so you can see what we have. The crossmember installed will be removed to install your unit. A gentleman started it with his own design and gave up so I appreciate your help on this. The white line is our wheel base of 113″ and that is your Z correct? I will get what you need from that.
Thank you so much.
Jeff

Dear Jeff…
Jeff, the stock wheelbase dimension will usually give the “Z” location. Sometimes the look is better when the wheel/tire is ahead or back slightly from the stock location. This is because of the vehicle rake or even the stock “look” of the wheel and tire in the fender opening that changes with the new ride height. If you have the luxury of putting a fender in place and mocking the tire, it could give  some relief to know the line you have was right all along. Or …

Thanks for the pictures.
I’ll try to get cut line info back to you quickly so you can get on with the build.
Paul

Dear Welder Series…

Hi Paul
We removed the engine and the other cross member to get more accurate measurements for your work sheets. I sent a pic of front frame also. Let me know if you need anything else and thank you for all your help.
Take care
Jeff

Dear Jeff…Jeff, this series of Plymouths gave us issues back in the 80’s when we had the first one to do. I think we were involved with another builder since then. He made new frame rails from the firewall forward.

The high frame arch makes it very difficult to install an independent front end.
The frame width is where the upper a-arm cross shafts will be and the frame arch is also there.
The work-around is to add to the bottom of the frame and remove from the top.
I can do some basic drawings that will show the height of the new bottom and top of the frame using the dropped spindles that you have I can do similar drawings for stock MII spindles.
Would you also please confirm the dimensions from ground to top of frame at CR and TR?
I’ll watch for your reply.
Paul

Dear Welder Series…

Hi Paul
Let me know when your free for a call again please. The plan is to install 2×4 at 13 1/8″ high and the same width as the inside of the existing rails and it should be more than 14 in in length of clean flat surface to work with on the top. I just want to talk before I cut it up.
Thanks
Jeff
Dear Jeff…
My drawings are all based on dropped spindles and 13” ground to the bottom of the 2×4.
Dear Welder Series…
Hi Paul
I have attached some pics of the Plymouth for you to have a look at. I got at it this week and it really went well and I thank you so much for all your help and engineering. I left the inner upper rails in as fillers for when the fenders are installed. We have some more finish work to do but we are really happy with the results.
Take care
Jeff
Mustang II crossmember excess material

Dear Welder Series… trimming excess off crossmember

Dear Welder Series…
Hi DW I’m pleased to say I have the main section of my mustang 2 kit installed in my frame rails, the instructions were clear as a bell and it is a beautiful piece of work. I was just curious if it is recommended to remove any excess metal on the outer edges of the crossmember or not to give it a cleaner look. I’ve attached a picture to show you what I plan to remove. Thanks again and hope to hear back soon.

Anthony

Mustang II crossmember excess material

Dear Anthony…
You can trim the area indicated. But it feels like there’s another problem coming regarding the towers. It looks like the frame is too narrow to attach them. Have you got past this issue or should we talk? Please call 888-648-2150 if you want to discuss it. Leave a message and I get back to you.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…
Oh thanks Paul. I did end up getting everything mounted onto the frame and all the measurements checked out so here’s an attached picture with the lower crossmembers and the upper control arms mounts all tacked in place. If this doesn’t look right let me know.

Dear Anthony…
Anthony, it’s hard for me to get a perspective on the tower and crossmember but maybe this sketch will help.
The front upper-inner corner of the tower should be very close to 9-3/4” higher than the lower pivot hole center. The rear should be very close to 9-1/4”.
The vertical edge of the tower should be 1-7/8” inches out from the lower arm hole.
I hope that helps.

Paul

Dear Welder Series… Mustang II crossmember notching

Dear Welder Series…
Does the coilover crossmember for a Mustang II go up the outside of the frame or do you have to notch it in?

Dear Don…
Hi, Don.

The crossmember and the upper spring towers get notched to fit the frame dimensions. Usually, the crossmember welds to the inside and under the frame rail but this depends on the track width, frame inside and outside dimensions, and the frame height relative to spindle height.
I can show you where the frame and tower notches will be for your application according to the instructions at: https://assets.adobe.com/public/17afad9a-b219-4191-7cfb-7ee4bfa6277c/Coil%20Spring%20Mustang%20II.pdf .
Please send the following dimensions:
Spindle height or front tire size you will use
Frame width, inside
at CF
at CR
Frame width outside
at CF
at CR
at TF
at TR
Bottom of frame to ground
at CF
at CR
Top of frame to ground
at CF
at CR
at TF
at TR
With this info, I’ll be able to show you which kit width will fit and how the crossmember and towers will have to be notched. I can also make suggestions regarding stock or dropped spindles. Then you can position your wheels and tires and see how the truck will look.
Thanks for getting back to me. I want to help you with your project.
Paul

Dear Welder Series: sway bar for Camaro clip?

Dear Welder Series…

Hey DW.
Hope all is well sir
Am working on a 39 Chev that someone has grafted a Camaro (I think) clip on with stock control arms.

I can’t get the factory sway bar in around the bottom of the rad etc.

Do you have parts available in your universal sway bar kit(s) to make something work?

Regards,
John

Dear John…
Good morning, John. Paul Horton here.

The tube that encloses our sway bar is 1-3/8” diameter and installs straight across the frame. It can go below, through, or above the frame, 8 – 10” behind or in front of where the sway bar arms will link to the upper or lower control arms. In an IFS installation, often the outer tube is slightly longer than the outside width of the frame where it mounts. The arms have to be bent for tire clearance in a turn.
I’m not familiar with the stock Camaro bar and where it doesn’t clear, but maybe the above info and the pics on the web store will give you some ideas. You could email pics to info@welderseries.com and I’d see if I could make some suggestions.
Thanks for considering our sway bar.
Paul Horton
Dear Welder Series…
Good enough sir thank you very much

Dear Welder Series… Model A front axle question

Dear Welder Series…
Hello,
I just wanted to thank you for your catalog.
I am going to attempt at 64 years old to build my first hot rod on a fixed income(retired).
It’s a Model A full fendered and my question is can I use a stock 48 Ford axle (48′) with your flat front cross member,a reverse eye spring and 500 or 560-15 front tire and A)get the required drop or stance and B) will the front tires stick out too far into the fender as the 48 axle is 1 inch wider on each side.
Again many thanks,
Bryan

Dear Bryan…
Good questions. I’ve been sitting looking at your email for a few minutes trying to decide how to answer them. And it comes down to: “It depends…”

It depends on the stance you want. A starting point might be to put the axle and wheels/tires that will be used under the car with no spring mounted. Use a short (4” long?) 2×4 on edge, running front-to-rear, on top of the axle and under the stock front crossmember. This mock-up will be about as close to a low spring arch as you can get. If you are ok with the tire width and fender clearance at this height you can consider going lower.

The flat crossmember will let you lower the front a maximum of 2” compared to the stock crossmember. The stock Model A rad bottom tank drops down into the stock crossmember area. The rad shell hides the upper and lower tanks and the side straps. Our flat crossmember will use up the space that the lower tank wants, so a custom rad would be required. The rad shell would not hide the bottom tank. This is something to consider.  

I hope this gives you some help with your build. Thanks for looking at Welder Series parts.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…
Thank you very much for your info Paul.
You have provided me some tips that I never knew in spite of reading hot rod magazines for 50 years.
Take care,
Bryan

Dear Welder Series… 1949 International kb1 Mustang II

Dear Welder Series…
I have a 1949 international kb1. I would like to use coil springs and the mustang 2. I think it would take the 60 inch track. Is this correct? What would be the total cost shipped to Winnipeg? Do you offer welding of the basic member? Thanks

Dear Paul,
Paul, There are 2 frames for KB1’s, according to my info, 28” and 30” outside width. With either of these frames, I’d widen the frame outside dimension by adding tubing so the 60” kit has more frame surface to weld to. Read through the installation sheets here and I think you’ll see what I mean. (30” frame outside doesn’t give any surface on top of the frame for the upper tower to weld to in the 60″ kit.)

Here is a link to the web store page for the Mustang II:

There are other parts there that you might need, too, and some videos.

The 60-1/2” kit, welded, including freight and sales tax would total C$346.50.  (That’s Canadian Dollars…)

Thanks for looking at Welder Series parts for your project.
Paul Horton

 

Dear Welder Series… coil over specs?

Dear Welder Series…
I just purchased a 1950 Chevy 3100 truck where the seller installed WS21906 in the front and WS318500 in the rear of the original frame. I was hoping you could suggested an affordable set of coil overs that would work with this setup. Unfortunately I have no idea as to what I should be looking for in terms of the stroke, lengths, dampening, etc.. Thank you.

Yuchol

Dear Yuchol…
Congratulations on your new project! These are great looking trucks.

I suggest blocking the truck at ride height to establish coil-over ride height.

If the upper mounts for the front shocks have been installed, the ride height for the coil-overs will be the center-to-center distance between the mounting holes on the lower arms and the brackets. If the frame plates have not been installed, click here for the manual…pages 2 and 13 will help.

If the rear crossmember has been installed to mount the top of the coil-overs, the truck’s ride height you have chosen with the mock-up will give you the coil-over ride height. If there isn’t yet a place to mount the top of the coil-over, please consider the crossmember

 

The coil-over mounting angle is discussed here. The coil-over ride height can be determined when you mock up the crossmember and mounting points.

Regarding the coil-over stroke, generally longer is better as it will offer more suspension travel. Other factors or interference points also come into play. Viking, RideTech and other North American companies make quality coil-overs.

I hope this helps with your decisions.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…
Thank you so much!

Yuchol

Dear Welder Series… What Steel Should I Use?

Dear Welder Series…
Hello,
I have a 1957 Chevy Pickup that I need to get running before another baby comes in June 2018. One of the things I need to do is put a new chassis under it. Someone did a Camaro front clip on it before I bought it, and after doing some research and talking to people about it, and taking multiple measurements, I do not feel confident in how the clip was done. I actually have a brand new (covered in dust) Mustang II kit from a local company in Ontario, California sitting in the shed, problem is I need new rails to attach it too.

What type of steel would you recommend for making new rails out of? I have read a lot of resources that say “mild steel” but I am looking for more specifics like A-36 plate or A1011 Grade XX pickled and oiled, or perhaps some other awesome stuff I don’t even know about.

I know it is probably a dumb question because in essence, helping me does nothing or very little for you. Regardless, I appreciate it and hope you will consider getting back to me.

Thank you,
David

Dear David…
Hi, David.
The tubing for this is called Hollow Structural Section (HSS tubing). Specific info is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_structural_section. 2×5, 1/8” or 3/16″ wall will work well.

We suggest a 60” track width for the ’57 Chev pickup. You might want to confirm that the kit you have is going to give you that track width. If the lower control arms are stock length, the crossmember pivot holes should be 26-1/4” center-to-center.
I hope this info helps. Thanks for thinking of Welder Series.
Paul Horton

Worth Repeating

I honestly can’t remember if I posted these pictures yet, but I was going through flagged emails tonight and I know exactly why this one was flagged.

D&D Rod & Custom in Church Hill TN do really, really clean work. They narrowed one of our Mustang II crossmember kits for this 1950 Mercedes frame, and used an assortment of other Welder Series pieces. I like the little tab on the engine mount plate which mounts the lower tab of the alternator. Also, check out their frame table… see the two pieces of C channel welded back to back with a few spacers between them? From what I can gather, a bolt slides in the space between the channels, and tightens on a plate top and bottom. Simple way to adjust the width of the uprights! Clever fellas.

Excellent work, guys!
Welder Series four link.
Narrowed Mustang II coil spring kit.
Clean and simple engine mount with alternator tab built in.

Dear Welder Series… stock Mustang II control arms?

Dear Welder Series…
Bought a mustang 2 crossmember kit that takes coil overs last year from your website… Wondering if the mustang 2 stock control arms ( upper and lower) will work….

Dear James…
They will, but it might be hard to find coil-overs that will fit the lower arms, the upper mounts and clear the stamped upper arms.  

The lower arms require a coil-over with a fairly high lower spring seat to clear the stamping. The lower coil-over mount will need some spacers to make up the inside dimension of the arm. The hole in the stock lower arm takes a 7/16” bolt, so it would have to be opened up to the size of the coil-over lower hole.

Our coil-over kit upper mounts are for conventional-style coil-overs that have an “eye” top mount. When you order coil-overs for the stock lower arms, the person filling that order will think you need a coil-over with an upper mount like the stock MII shock, which can be thought of as a threaded extension of the shock shaft. The hardware in our kit is 1/2”, so you should be sure the coil-over upper is for a 1/2” bolt.

The stamped stock uppers are bulkier than tubular ones around the ball joint and I’m not certain that they will clear the coil-over spring when the ball joint is in a low position (as when the frame goes up).

Seemed like a simple question but there is a more involved answer. I hope this helps.

Paul

Dear Paul…
Ok thanks for the fast reply. So I guess I should use tubular control arms… Should I use narrowed ones or the regular ones? As for coil overs what do you recommend to use or brand to go for? And lastly for power rack and pinion, can I use a 78 mustang 2 or is there one you recommend to use with your crossmember?

If I would’ve gotten the other crossmember instead of the coilover ones…  The stock control arms would’ve worked?

Please email me back on to what control arms, power rack, and coil overs i should use for my truck…  

Lastly, I’m driving to Ontario in a few months for a few weeks and visit the folks, I was wondering if I can drop by your shop and drop off a running board bracket to be remanufactured ( I would need 6) and I’m planning to buy a 4 link but don’t exactly know where to start. Would you be able to give me quotes for the bracket?

Thanks a million Paul.

Dear James…
James, the tube arms are more money, but maybe not much more when you add the strut rods, bushing, and gussets. The ride with the tube A-arms will be much smoother. I’ve had both on our ’40 Ford and was amazed at the improvement from a good ride to a great ride. Stock or narrowed arms depend on the brake kit. 

I don’t think it matters whose North American made control arms you use. The ’78 power rack you ask about will be fine. If you have to source one, it will be easier to find a ’79 and newer Fox body power rack. Regarding coil-overs, I suggest you check with Canadian street rod shops to see what their policy is regarding spring exchange, if required. It will be easier to change springs when dealing with a Canadian company rather than with US and Canada Customs. I realize these are general answers but there are several good companies making and/or selling those parts.

I hope this helps, too. Thanks for asking me.

Paul

Dear Paul…
Thank you for the info good Sir! I will swing by your shop soon enough and planning to pick your brains more than I already have! Thank you again

Dear James…
I realize I did’t answer about the running board bracket. I’d need the bracket for a few days while I do a CAD drawing. Then I can quote it.

I’m not at the shop all day, every day anymore. If I know when you plan to come, I’ll be sure to be there or see if another time would suit.

Paul

Dear Welder Series… which master cylinder?

Dear Welder Series…
Good morning!

I was just wondering if you had a suggested master cylinder to use with your universal under floor brake kit?  Is there one from a specific vehicle that I can pick up from the local parts store?  I have also attached a couple pictures for you of some of your products on my build so far!

Cheers,
Jon

[Jon used some custom length bars on his parallel four link, and our #229000 thru-frame tie rod end mount.]

Dear Jon…
Jon, nice work on your frame! Looks like you have nice facilities, too!

Any GM or Ford master cylinder will fit our brackets, thanks to the slightly elongated mounting holes. Corvette master cylinders are low profile so work nicely in many street rod projects. Be sure to check the street rod shops for them. We found more bore sizes were available and the price was good.

Thanks for the pictures! (And for using our parts.)

Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series… No Door Mustang II?

Dear Welder Series…
Hello from so-cal! do you want to make a lot of people happy? please make a mustang 2 crossmember kit for our 61-67 ford econoline vans and trucks! these things wander all over the road when lowered, and are a handful to drive. one problem is steering column ends up in front of the axle, but with a direction changer from a Toyota vanwagon this could be fixed. please, please consider this project as no one else is making one. if you would like to look at my van, you can google “kurt bohne’s nodoor” or econowest van gatherings at the rosebowl thank you, kurt

Dear Kurt…
Hi, Kurt. I like making people happy. Your NoDoor is a good looking van. We no longer build cars or do installation work, so developing a kit specifically for the axle series Econoline vans would not be an in-house option. We do produce custom parts to drawings/sketches provided by builders. This would be something we could do to help you.

Thanks for looking at Welder Series parts and thinking about us for your project. Please let me know if we can work on this with you.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series… Pinto spindles?

Dear Welder Series…
I have a question  but not sure if i post it here or another way on the site. I am wanting to put pinto spindles on my 70 dodge dart (because i want to put a rack and pinion) and im going to be converting to tubular a arms and a k member. Are all pinto spindles the same and if not what years should i be looking at. Also, are the balljoint tapers the same for mopar and pinto stuff (i heard they were). Ill be putting 73 a body disc brakes on it to get rid of the drum brakes. I love that i found this site. Thank you for any info. If you need me to post another way then just let me know and i will.

Dear Brian…
Good questions, Brian. I can only answer some of them.

There are 2 different Pinto spindles: 1971-73 and 1974-80. (1974-80 pinto and 1974-78 Mustang II are identical.) See  this article to compare. I like the 74 – 78 spindles because they are bigger and are the ones commonly used in Mustang II crossmember kits, including ours. 1971 – 73 are often used on drag race cars, probably because they are lighter. There are big brake kits available for the early spindles, but I’d say you have more big brake choices for the later spindles.

Moog K772 ball joints fit the late spindles, but I don’t know about the early ones. When using the K772 as a lower ball joint on the later spindles, use our K772S spacer and the stock ball joint washer under the nut. Without the spacer and washer, the nut will not draw the tapered ball joint stud into the hole tightly.

I don’t know if adapter kits are available to put the 73 A-body brakes on the Mustang II spindle.

Thanks for checking out Welder Series parts. I hope we can help with your project.

Paul Horton

Sway bar used on Corvette IFS in 1942 Chevy pickup

Here are some pictures of the installation of a universal sway bar on a 1942 Chevy pickup. I installed it to the rear of the a arm because it gave me much more room. It was going to be very close to and possibly hitting on the tie rods for the rack and pinion steering. I was very pleased with the sway bar and the installation. I will and have recommended your products. Thanks so much,
Jim

The customer bent the arm to clear the tire in a turn.
Nice stout bracket to mount the outer tube.