Author: DW

Which welder should I use?

Either stick, MIG or TIG can be used to assemble and install Welder Series parts. The machine has to have the capacity to weld the material thickness (most Welder Series brackets are 3/16” mild steel).

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Trimming the frame for a MII

Here's a great example of what it takes to install a Mustang II crossmember in frames where the rails are too high, too thick, or just not nice to work with.

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Horton Hot Rod History, part 3


CSRA (Canadian Street Rod Association) member: Christopher Horton (my brother), age 1-1/2.  1977

The ’23 was sold – the almost twice-monthly ritual of driving to runs in Ontario with Paul in the ’23 and Christopher & Dorothy in the late model grew old!  A ’46 Ford was purchased in Louisville in Spring ’77.

It started like this in a garage in Montreal.

He’s really serious!

Mini-showroom and product display, Breslau Ontario, early 1979.

Circa 1984?

John’s custom axle bracket

John (president of the Central Florida Street Rod Association) sent me a picture of a Welder Series triangulated rear axle bracket he modified into a lower coil over bracket.  I thought the job was so well done it needed to be shared!

If you have used our parts in a unique way, please let me know.  John, there is $5 on your account for letting us use the picture.

Since John modified this axle bracket, we have introduced a shock/coilover axle bracket:

’32 Update: headlight wiring/mounting (article 43)

The headlight wires, transmission cooler lines, and A/C hoses are all routed along the driver side frame rail with a common clamp assembly.

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’32 Update: E-Brake Linkage Revisited (article 42)

The emergency brake handle mount is a neat little piece, but I don't think I explained how it attaches to the floor.

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Dear Welder Series: custom MII

Dear Welder Series…

Should be receiving my 60″ crossmember today.
I was reviewing some measurements based on the video for the installation.
I’m trying to keep close to the ride height I currently have. The current spindle height with the tire is 14″. The top of the frame is 21″ and 17″ at the bottom.
My question is, what’s the max delta between the fame measurement and the top hat spring enclosure before I run out of material on the top hat to weld and clearance for the upper control arm bolts.

I hope that was clear.
Thanks,
Stephen

This is a good question, Stephen.  It is important to consider these things before cutting, as you are doing…

The maximum frame height (top of the frame) to clear the rear of the upper control arm is spindle height (14″ in your case) plus 4-3/4″;  i.e. 18-3/4″.  This will be the vertical height from the ground to the top of the frame at a point 5-1/2″ back from the spindle center line.  Aftermarket arms are often smaller at the bushing than stock arms but you probably won’t be able to go much more than 5″ instead of the 4-3/4 noted above.  To solve this upper arm/frame rail interference issue, notch the top of the frame rail.  In your case, you might want to notch the top and add to the bottom, because of the amount removed (about 2″ of the 4″ frame rail).  Add to the bottom first to make the rail stronger, then cut down from the top.  After the frame rail gets notched and boxed (and/or the bottom gets material added) these new surfaces become the top and bottom reference surfaces for the tower and crossmember notches.

Your question was very clear (I think)… I hope this answer is clear.  Let me know if, after reviewing the sheets included with the kit, you want to talk again.

Thanks for bringing up a good point.

Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series: LS1 Motor Mount Info, ’80 F100 MII

Dear Welder Series…

Hello:
Can you tell me if the part number LS103 will work to adapt a LS1 engine to fit the standard motor mounts for a 1972 Chevelle?

Thanks!
John

John, LS150 is the kit to use for your Chevelle.  Use Energy Suspension #3.1114 insulators.  These insulators have a reinforcing rib on the engine side.  The slot in the adapter plate is clearance for this rib.  Notice that the top of the slot in the LS104 adapter plate is higher than the slot in the LS150 plate.  The rib in the GM stock rubber insulator goes higher than the Energy Suspension (ES) rib.  The ES rib is shorter so the flat head Allen bolt can be used to hold the plate to the engine block.  The stock GM rubber insulators do not work with the LS150 (and LS166) kits.

LS103 is used in the LS104 kit.  This kit is for custom-built frames that don’t have any frame mounts installed.  Frame mounts #C005 can be used to complete the installation in, for example, a ’32 Ford.

I hope this helps you get the right mounts for your car.

Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…

Wondering if your welder mustang 11 kit can be made to fit in a 1980 f-100 pickup. Want to lower this truck but it appears nobody make a kit to do so. this is why I’m asking it seems my only hope would be put more of car type front end under it. thanks for any help

Thanks for asking about Welder Series parts, Joseph.  The widest MII crossmember we make is about 60″ track width.  This is the distance from the wheel mounting face of one rotor to the other.  Will this be wide enough for your project?

The coil spring mounts for the Twin I-Beam will have to come off.

How wide apart are your frame rails (inside & outside dimensions)?

Can you give me an idea of  the ride height dimensions from the ground to the bottom and to the top of the frame?

I’ll get back to you after I do some work with your reply.

Thanks.

Paul Horton

Horton Hot Rod History, part 1

I came across these scans tonight and thought it would be fun to post them, just for you to see some of what the family’s been up to for the past 30+ years.


One of “the twins”, a pair of trick hiboy roadsters built in the 80’s by Paul Horton and Lloyd Stewart. This ’32 is still seen at Louisville.


Paul & Dorothy Horton with me in the ’29 in the mid 80’s.


The same ’29 on hand formed 2×4 rails matching the contour of the body. This car had an unfortunate end in a cemetery after being T-boned during a poker run. You can call it luck if you must, but for some reason my brother and I (who ALWAYS rode in the rumble seat) asked to ride in a ’46 sedan with friends. After the accident, the battery (strapped down in the floor of the rumble seat) was found way down the road. I don’t call it luck.

A ’23 T Bucket that kind of started the whole parts business. This car was built in a Montreal garage by Paul and Dorothy Horton. There are tonnes of trick parts on this car!


The current (well, it hasn’t been on the road in three years) ’40 Sedan is the car I remember traveling to events in as a kid. With over 90 000 miles, we made quite a few!


The 1935 Chev built between the cherry tree and the apple tree in Paul Horton’s parents back yard.


My brother and I before we were made redundant by pin-ups. I’m the cute blond making the bird face.

Dear Welder Series… 67 Mustang MII, 61 Falcon MII, grinner

Dear Welder Series…

I am looking for a crossmember kit to put in my 67 mustang I need to know which one to order for my application?.?. I was looking at your flats do these require forming? If so do they come with fab prints? I was also wondering if these are made from a-36 and are they laser or plasma burnt?  thanks in advance,  mark

Mark, the 56″ kit is the one to use on your Mustang.
The main crossmember plates (there are two of them in a kit) have laser-cut slits that go through the steel.  There are 3 “bridges” that hold the part together.  The slit makes it possible (and easy) to fold the crossmember pieces by hand.  The rack mounts are part of the main crossmember, so they will be in the right location when the crossmember is assembled.  The rack mounts are designed with laser-cut slits and can be folded without anything more than an adjustable wrench, too.  There is a video showing this at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoYOYT1iZTY .  Our crossmembers are laser cut from 44W or A569 steel.

UPDATE: crossmember plates are supplied CNC formed.

Thanks for asking.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…

Do you know which of your weld in kits are compatable with a 61 Ford Falcon?

Thanks

The 56″ kit is the one to use in your Falcon, Gord.

Thanks for asking.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…

I found your web site surfing and have been grinning since. I have a 1974 Opel Manta with some holes in the frame. I want to tub it out, not too much, but enough to run a 12″ wide slick.
I am not sure on how to measure the curves in the pieces I need, but I can make them out of carboard, label them, and send to you with some pictures. Unless you have an easier way for me to get the measurements to you?
I plan on getting the 58″ Mustang II front cross member kits, and more as I go.
Thanks for the great web site and the instruction videos, that helps guys like me so much. Not alot of money, can fabricate, but not sure on the technical measurements or set up, you guys make it a little easier.
Take care.
Phil

Phil, we like to see people grinning!
All of our frame curves, vertical and horizontal, are 4″ inside radius.  It will be far better to buy the curves that we stock than to have us make curves to match your frame.  You could make cardboard pieces for our stock curves and hold them up to your frame.  A 3 x 2 vertical curve will be 4″ inside radius and 7″ outside radius (4″ + 3″).  The 3 x 2 horizontal curve will be 4″ inside and 6″ outside (4″ + 2″).
I hope this helps.  Thanks for asking.
Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…

I’m looking at your mustang II kits and I watched your video but I still can’t see if they will work with a full fendered ’31 ford coupe.  The upper control arms can’t go very far above the top edge of the frame for the fenders to mount properly. If I would lower the whole assembly it would raise the car front considerably. Do you have any suggestions?

You’re right, Gary.  A Mustang II does not work easily in a Model ‘A’ (or late 20’s/early 30’s Chevs either).  The upper towers and the upper arms themselves, as you point out, will interfere with the fenders.  The front mounted rack interferes with the splash apron under the rad shell, too.  My suggestion?  Heidt’s Superide or Kugel or TCI custom IFS.

Thanks for asking.  I hope we can help with other parts for your project.

Paul Horton

Dear Welder Series…

Hi.  Saw your posts and great reviews on the HAMB.  I am finally getting back to work on a project that has been 14 years in the making.  I’m going to be 30 next year, and I’d like to drive my truck before then.

I’d like to  fab a custom 4-bar tube axle suspension with coil-overs.  I’m going to be running an IHC 392 and borg-warner 3 speed.  The IH engine ways as much as a big block Chev.  I’d like to get my truck fairly low running 16″ wheels.  I have a friend who is a welder that will be helping me with the frame.  I plan to stick with leaves in the back, and will likely need to c-notch the frame and install ladder bars.
I’m wondering what you can supply or fabricate to help me with my project.  Any help/suggestions especially concerning the front axle would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much for your time.
Sincerely,
John

Thanks for asking about Welder Series parts, John.

There are generally 2 types of tubular front axles:
1.  A straight tube that is bent a each end to “drop” the center section.  The spindle/king pin boss is then welded into a notch machined into the end of the tube.  Often the king pin is locked in place with a set screw.  These axles are made for vehicles much lighter than your truck.
2.  The “Super Bell” style with cast or forged “S”-shaped ends welded into a “smile”-shaped tube center.  These axles are designed to be used with a transverse spring.  This requires a crossmember to mount the spring.  The IHC 392 oil pan might want the same space as the crossmember.

Unless you are really committed to the front axle/4-bar suspension, I’d like you to consider a Mustang II independent.  There are several reasons:
1:  The ride height can (must) be established before the crossmember is installed.  Your truck will sit at the height where you want it.
2:  The ride quality will be better than with the axle.
3:  Steering will be more precise than with the axle.
4:  Power steering is easy to add or install later, if you want it.
5:  You can scout out and work around “ambushes” like oil pan interference before you are surprised.
6:  The rack mounts are part of the crossmember so the steering gear will be in the right spot.
7:  The cost is about the same as a finished dropped axle system.  But the truck’s resale value will be higher with the Mustang II.
7+:  There are more reasons for considering a MII suspension for this type of project, but ultimately, the project is yours.

I’m a big fan of coil-overs and air bags (conventional or ShockWaves) for rear suspension systems because they have a designed ride height.  That is, the suspension brackets get set up knowing that the coil-over or air spring will be at a designed height when the vehicle is ready to drive.  We use a piece of 1″ square tube with holes drilled at the coil-over’s ride height when building a project because there is no guessing at how much the suspension will compress under load.  We are going to use a spring (or air pressure) to achieve that ride height after all the weight is on the suspension.  Leaf springs do not allow this flexibility.  Leaves have to be added or removed, or the arch has to be changed.  Lowering blocks can be used to lower the frame, but it is difficult to raise the frame if necessary.

I hope this information helps with your planning.

Paul Horton